Transcript of Utilizing Expertise to Construct Connections within the Actual World

Transcript of Utilizing Expertise to Construct Connections within the Actual World written by John Jantsch learn extra at Duct Tape Advertising and marketing

Again to Podcast


This transcript is sponsored by our transcript companion – Rev – Get $10 off your first order

John Jantsch: I really like know-how. I really like the truth that we will talk and work nearly, nonetheless there’s no query that these instruments and know-how have created a way of isolation for lots of people in firms, numerous entrepreneurs with their prospects. On this episode of The Duct Tape Advertising and marketing Podcast, we’re going to speak with Dan Schawbel, and we’re going to go to his e-book known as Again to Human: How Nice Leaders Create Connection within the Age of Isolation. Test it out.

Stuff like payroll and advantages are exhausting. That’s why I switched to Gusto. And to assist help the present, Gusto is providing our listeners an unique restricted time deal. You join their payroll service right now, you’ll get three months free when you run your first payroll. Simply go to

Hiya, and welcome to a different episode of The Duct Tape Advertising and marketing Podcast. That is John Jantsch. And my visitor right now is Dan Schawbel. He’s a New York Occasions bestselling creator, companion and analysis director at Future Office, and the founding father of each Millennial Branding and He’s additionally the creator of Again to Human: How Nice Leaders Create Connection within the Age of Isolation. Welcome again, Dan.

Dan Schawbel: So completely happy to be right here. I used to be pondering this morning. I’m like, “I’m going to speak to John.” And when did I first connect with him? I imply, it’s acquired to be 2006, 2007 when there was the Advert Age 150. Keep in mind that?

John Jantsch: Yeah, I form of do. Yeah.

Dan Schawbel: And when it went up I’m like, “Huh. Properly, I aspire to be on that checklist.” And I believe strategically it’s in all probability good to know everybody on there as a result of all of them love advertising, and I’m a marketer, though I’m a marketer in HR now. It’s all the time my skillset and I all the time regarded as much as you. You all the time offered unbelievable content material constantly. You had been passionate. You had an incredible mannequin. I simply actually preferred it, and I believe you do an incredible job.

John Jantsch:  Properly, thanks very a lot. I suppose we’ll cross out compliments right here as a result of simply in watching what you’ve performed during the last decade, lots of people have jumped on this private branding factor years in the past. And you’ve got performed pretty much as good a job of constructing a private model as actually anybody on-line. And primarily it’s since you’ve been so constant.

Dan Schawbel: Thanks. I recognize it.

John Jantsch: Let’s get into the e-book. I’m form of studying this as a result of I need to get it proper. However I need to allow you to unpack this. Again to Human reveals why digital and digital communication, although important and helpful, really contributes to a stronger sense of isolation at work than ever earlier than. I’m guessing that’s the primary premise of the e-book, so unpack that for me.

Dan Schawbel: Completely. Expertise has created the phantasm that we’re so linked, however in actuality we really feel very disconnected, remoted, lonely, much less dedicated to our groups and organizations over the overuse and misuse of know-how. It’s not like know-how’s a horrible factor. It’s actually about how you employ it. And so I interviewed 100 younger leaders from 100 of the most effective firms on the planet, so Johnson and Johnson and GE and Uber and Instagram. And everybody described know-how as being a double edged sword. It’s performed some nice issues. However on the identical time, it’s made us suppose we now have a ton of buddies, Fb buddies. And it’s made us suppose that we’re being extremely collaborative and undertaking nice work, when the fact is we would get some stuff performed, however the relationships we now have with our coworkers usually are not as robust. And it’s a lot simpler to go away a workforce of acquaintances that you simply generally e mail and work with than a workforce that looks like a household.

John Jantsch: Yeah. And it’s humorous as a result of know-how has clearly enabled us to work in another way. I’ve a consumer in London. I’ve a consumer in Toronto. I’ve by no means sat head to head with both of them. I’ve staff which are in seven completely different states, and barely can we ever see one another. It’s enabled us to work in numerous methods, however there’s no query there’s a complete new set of practices I believe to attempt to form of regain a few of that humanness, as you talked about within the e-book. Aren’t there?

Dan Schawbel: Yeah. And it’s attention-grabbing as a result of I believe particularly right now when persons are working so, so exhausting, in America the common workweek is 47 hours per week. And never having your telephone is the brand new trip. We’re all the time form of on the hook. We’re all the time form of on responsibility. We really feel responsible if we’re not responding to a enterprise e mail on trip or after “work hours.” Proper? Due to the distant work revolution and the power to do work utilizing know-how and join wherever and everytime you need to, the draw back is that we get burned out. Now we have weaker connections. We really feel stress and anxiousness, so it may be unhealthy for our well being. And essentially the most fascinating discovering, I labored with Virgin Pulse. My firm, Future Office, and Virgin Pulse partnered in a research of over 2000 managers and staff in 10 international locations. And it revealed one thing actually fascinating. When you work distant, you’re a lot much less more likely to need to say you need a long-term profession at your organization.

Working distant has all these constructive issues that individuals discuss, having the liberty and adaptability to do work when, the place, and the way you need. And it lowers commuting prices, in fact. However the draw back by no means will get talked about. And that’s isolation, which creates loneliness after which unhappiness. It’s all linked. And so consciously, as somebody who’s labored from residence for nearly eight years, I’m all the time fascinated with: How can I break up my day so I’m assembly folks, whether or not it’s for enterprise or private? And it’s like once we take a look at our calendars, our calendars are created for enterprise. Proper? And we all the time say issues like, “If it’s not on my calendar, it doesn’t exist.” We let the know-how attempt to do the work for us.

If we’re going to let the know-how do the work for us, it also needs to have points of our private life on our calendar. That’s a part of what I’m saying with regards to work, life integration and being aware about for those who’re working so many hours and also you’re form of all the time working, how do you break up the day so that you’re totally maximizing your time, and also you’re fulfilled personally and professionally? And the primary chapter is known as Give attention to Achievement. You should develop into fulfilled earlier than you possibly can sit down with your whole workforce members and assist them accomplish their targets and repair their wants. And the issues that stay constant, as you realize, you’re born, you pay taxes, you die. That’s the massive joke. Proper? Most likely by a number of generations.

Properly, what about we solely have 24 hours in a day? After which our wants when it comes to the Maslow’s Hierarchy of Wants stay the identical no matter how a lot know-how we now have. We want meals and shelter, after which to be cherished and have friendships. In any other case, we’ll by no means be self actualized. We’ll by no means be capable to attain our full potential and be the most efficient employee conceivable for our firm.

John Jantsch: And you realize what’s attention-grabbing, there’s so many firms right now which have distributed workforce. And I discover myself falling into this behavior. I’ve our test in conferences, and on the finish it’s identical to, “Get to it. Work. Work.” It’s like we by no means have that what we used to name, across the water cooler time, the place it’s like, “Hey. How was your weekend?” It’s identical to, we’ve acquired this name, it’s scheduled. It’s for a objective. It’s like a gathering, so we by no means have that point to in some methods get to know one another. One in every of my favourite chapters within the e-book is this concept of shared studying, the place chances are you’ll be … I believe you must carve out these items. Don’t you?

Dan Schawbel: You already know what’s superb? So many individuals have stated they’ve preferred that chapter. And the fact is the explanation why I believe that chapter is so within the now could be as a result of true energy, and also you’ve performed that, we’ve grew up on the planet of running a blog, so we all know this very properly, is true energy and affect in our society is just not the individuals who maintain onto the data. It’s those that distribute it freely. And I believe that’s an enormous shift from perhaps 10, 20 years in the past versus right now.

And we have to share what we all know with the folks we work with and care about, so all of us can sustain with the pace of enterprise and undertake the modifications which are inevitably occurring, whether or not we prefer it or not. The typical relevancy of a discovered talent is barely 5 years, so we now have to maintain on transferring. The large abilities now are synthetic intelligence, machine studying, knowledge scientists. You’ve acquired to maintain going. You’ve acquired to maintain up with what’s altering. And for those who don’t, the duties you probably did 5 and 10 years in the past are simply not going to be as related. You’re going to receives a commission much less for them and also you’re going to wrestle.

And with the intention to know this data, with the intention to know the developments which are occurring in your trade, be taught the brand new abilities, see the newest analysis research, we now have to depend on one another as a result of we’re discovering an increasing number of data by our community. I imply, that’s the brilliance of Fb. Proper? It’s like, I don’t have to determine what’s occurring within the information. It’s going to come back to me primarily based on who I comply with and good friend.

John Jantsch: Yeah. And I believe you possibly can take step farther. I do know in our group, what we attempt to do is sort of job folks with saying, “Hey. Go discover out about that and are available again and educate us all.” And I believe what it does is, it has the twin impact of, as you stated, we get to be taught some extra. However as you realize, nothing makes you be taught one thing higher than if you realize you’re going to have to show it to anyone.

Dan Schawbel: Properly, really now that you simply carry that up, I did a complete presentation on this. Google has a G to G program, the place staff educate different staff what they know. And it’s all volunteer foundation. However I believe folks naturally need to be lecturers. They may not need to be a part of the college system, however they need to share what they know with others as a result of it helps them be taught and grasp it extra. And it’s good on your profession. Proper? You develop into an knowledgeable. You’re wanted. You construct a community. It’s actually the crux of non-public branding, what I did earlier in my profession. Proper? It’s develop into the most effective at what you do for a particular viewers, or develop into actually good at a number of issues when mixed offer you a aggressive benefit. After which simply give freely. I imply, between us, what number of items of content material you suppose you and I’ve generated in 10, 20, 10 or 15 years? Like, hundreds, proper?

John Jantsch: I’ve acquired 4000 weblog posts.

Dan Schawbel:  Yeah. And, I believe we hit 5700. After which for those who add LinkedIn, Fb, all the opposite networks, writing articles, like we now have books. It’s lots.

John Jantsch: Wouldn’t it’s nice if in your corporation, all you needed to do was the stuff you’re keen on, the explanation you began the enterprise, and never all that administrative stuff like payroll and advantages? That stuff’s exhausting particularly once you’re a small enterprise. Now I’ve been delegating my payroll for years to a kind of huge company firms. And I all the time felt like a bit tiny fish. However now there’s a a lot better manner. I’ve converted to Gusto, and it’s making payroll and advantages and HR simple for the trendy small enterprise. You now not should be an enormous firm to get nice know-how, nice advantages, and nice service to maintain your workforce. To assist help the present, Gusto is providing our listeners an unique restricted time deal. When you join right now, you’ll get three months free when you run your first payroll. Simply go to

One other factor I like about your e-book is that you simply put numerous workouts in there so folks can strive what they form of have examine. And also you’ve even created a take a look at or an evaluation, the Work Connectivity Index. Inform us about that.

Dan Schawbel: Yeah. I all the time needed to do an evaluation for my e-book. I noticed what Sally Hogshead did with Fascinate and what Gallup did, and Tom Rath with Energy Finder. And I used to be very impressed by them. I’m like, “Huh. I’d like to do it sometime.” And on this e-book I had the concept. If I’m finding out work connectivity, what about having an evaluation to inform folks how robust of connectivity they’ve inside their organizations? Proper? And so that you get low connectivity rating versus excessive connectivity rating. And persons are all in the course of that. And so I reached out to seven professors. It was like first come, first served. The primary one who was actually enthusiastic about working with me acquired it, so it was Kevin Rockman, a professor at George Mason College helped me create the evaluation. It’s on If you take it, you’ll get a rating. And naturally, in case you have a low rating it implies that you’re not getting sufficient face time and also you’re not constructing the kind of relationships which are required to be completely happy and fulfilled and profitable in right now’s working world.

John Jantsch: You’ve additionally created a LinkedIn studying course, which I believe is superior. I’ve performed about, I believe I’m as much as about seven programs with them. They’re nice folks to work with.

Dan Schawbel: Wow. You win.

John Jantsch: You already know what it’s, you go on the market and so they go, “This man’s simple to work with and he will get performed quick. Let’s give him one other one.”

Dan Schawbel: Particularly when, I do know this in all probability true to you as properly, I completed I believe three hours forward of time, and so they love that as a result of the seashore is true there.

John Jantsch: Precisely. I really like going to Santa Barbara. However they informed me they’d one particular person are available in and it took them 4 days to do a course. I used to be like, “Wow. I’d shoot myself.” One of many issues that you’re so good at, and I believe lots of people neglect this right now within the on-line world, is you will have performed an incredible job at attracting mainstream media. Clearly, you’ve picked some scorching matters, and that’s one of many methods to get consideration. However I’ll ask this query actually for enterprise homeowners, however different authors on the market. What’s been your secret to get a lot pub? You get as a lot as anyone within the mainstream, I believe.

Dan Schawbel: Yeah. I believe I’ve generated, it’s undoubtedly hundreds of media impressions at this level, or media hits, I’d say. And you realize what, it’s a cross between proper matter, proper time, making an attempt to be unique, staying in my lane. Any time I enterprise out of my lane, issues don’t work out properly. I’ve performed a complete analysis marketing campaign on politics that failed. Something that’s exterior of my area, it usually doesn’t do properly as a result of you must be seen because the knowledgeable in what you’re publishing, or publish what you need to be an knowledgeable in. And for those who aren’t doing that, you’re not going to be seen as a reputable supply it doesn’t matter what you’re placing on the market. Focus in your strengths. Keep in your lane. Double down.

And consider one thing unique. For me, I’ve led 45 analysis research surveying about 90,00zero folks in 20 international locations in six years, so I’ve been all in with analysis as a result of it permits me to create one thing new, discover one thing and share and disseminate and distribute these findings by books and speeches and media and numerous kinds. I believe you want community. I’ve a bonus being in New York as a result of the media’s right here, clearly. That has helped. I gained’t deny that. Second, I believe you could work out what makes you distinctive. Proper? What matters do you suppose that you’ve one thing to say about? When you’ve got nothing to say, and so in interviews, that interview’s not going to go properly, and also you gained’t be invited again.

The opposite factor is begin small. Again within the day, I used to be doing native TV, radio, a few of the smaller retailers, which ready me for the larger retailers. If my first interview was on the At this time Present, I’d’ve bombed it as a result of I didn’t have the expertise. So I bombed an area ABC affiliate. I didn’t bomb it, I simply didn’t carry out at my finest. However that was good as a result of it was a studying expertise. After which I knew that even when they provide me the questions, that they won’t ask the questions. They may do a trick query, so it’s being ready for every part. After which I believe it’s simply being simple to work with, like what you’re saying. It’s like being very responsive. For me, I’m very responsive. I get instant inquiry, growth, I simply go for it.

Again then, I’ll let you know, part one in my profession with private branding, it was my solely objective was to personal the search outcomes for private branding in Google. That was the one technique I had, however in fact that connects to doing numerous different issues proper. And that acquired me virtually all my unique media that allowed me to construct my platform. After which I believe part two has been extra on the analysis, so it’s more durable to get press now, so I have to create information as a substitute of hoping that I can match into the information that’s at present occurring.

John Jantsch: And the media loves statistics, [inaudible 00:16:56].

Dan Schawbel: Yeah.

John Jantsch:  It’s one thing that may be simplified into one sound chew. And sadly, that generally is what it takes.

Dan Schawbel: And I believe part three, the way in which I’m seeing it now could be actually constructing your personal platform. I simply began my very own podcast. It’s known as 5 Questions with Dan Schawbel, actually energetic on Instagram, two posts a day, seven days per week. Instagram is my new weblog. It’s precisely what I did. How I’m working Instagram is precisely what I did within the early weblog days. Again then, I posted twice a day. And it was longer kind with running a blog. And I commented on each Instagram, or weblog profile, or weblog web site, sorry, that talked about private branding. At this time, I’ve selected perhaps six or seven profiles and I’m all the time commenting. And between commenting and posting every single day, I’ve gone from 4 to 26,00zero followers organically in rather less than 4 months. That’s it. That’s all I’ve performed.

And naturally, folks I’ve met have learn the e-book, so I get some followers simply primarily based on repute. However most of it’s earned, and it’s simply numerous work. And other people don’t need to hear that it takes time. I believe part three is you’ve actually acquired to double down by yourself platform as a result of the chance of getting seen in conventional media is declining considerably. I used to do marketing campaign. My first marketing campaign, John, was in 2012. Actually went viral. I analyzed 4 million millennial Fb profiles, At this time Present, CNN. It was in every single place, 70 nationwide media retailers, so folks noticed it.

Now it’s like perhaps you get 10 at most. And I’ve been doing this for six years constantly. In a single 12 months, I did 9 research. And I’m telling you, now for those who do one thing like that, it’s a lot more durable to interrupt by. Books, it’s more durable to interrupt by. In order that tells me, that to me is suggestions that, okay, I have to double down on social media and constructing my very own platform and leveraging every part I’ve performed to try this as a result of the long run might be grim. I believe much more of those media firms are going to go below, and new media’s going to be rising. I believe you’ve acquired to shift methods as that is occurring. And that’s the decision I made, is I’m transferring my efforts.

John Jantsch: Good segue to the final query I needed to speak about. We’ve been speaking about social media right here for a minute. And there’s lots of people that might declare social media has really made us much less human, in all probability one of many largest culprits of creating us much less human. How do you, within the vein of how nice leaders create connection within the age of isolation, how do you do this with the conclusion the social media is a crucial channel?

Dan Schawbel: Nice query. The motto for the e-book is to let know-how be a bridge to human connection and never a barrier. Use the know-how to schedule a podcast interview. However once you’re within the interview, hopefully it’s audio or perhaps video, and so that you’re attending to know the particular person. Use it to attach with others to get them to go to a gathering, or a networking occasion, or an workplace party. And by the way in which, discovered by the e-book that the primary factor that leaders ought to do is create extra social occasions and firm outings as a result of that’s what staff actually are on the lookout for proper now, is to construct relationships in that respect. And it’s missing. Solely 20% of firms have these sort of social occasions, and that’s form of damaged.

I believe, let know-how lead you to the human interactions as a substitute of simply counting on it as crutch, pondering that know-how’s going to do all of the give you the results you want. Use it with the intention to make these preliminary connections. And what you’ve been so good at this too is within the early days, you’ll join with so many bloggers. However then there can be blogger meetups. And also you’d meet them in particular person. For me, as an introvert, it’s a lot simpler to succeed in out by way of e mail or textual content, after which really meet in particular person. I really feel extra comfy as a result of I really feel like I already know you. I believe when and when to not use know-how is what we now have to consider.

John Jantsch: Superior. Talking with New York Occasions bestselling creator Dan Schawbel. We’re speaking about Again to Human: How Nice Leaders Create Connection within the Age of Isolation. We’re going to have hyperlinks, in fact. We all the time do, to every part we talked about, just like the evaluation and the e-book itself, in fact, and even the LinkedIn course. However Dan, inform folks the place they will attain out and join with you.

Dan Schawbel: Completely. You may go to That’s And you may go on Amazon or your native e-book retailer and decide up Again to Human, after which hearken to the podcast, 5 Questions with Dan Schawbel. Thanks.

John Jantsch: Thanks Dan. It’s all the time nice to meet up with you. Hopefully we’ll run into you on the market on the street.

Dan Schawbel: You bought it, my good friend.

Supply hyperlink

Be Sociable, Share!